Nested Concepts

This is an idea of Scott Morton's. The article is written by Bill Heimann.

Scott has some insight on nested concepts. He says that we usually process formation information in the forward direction.

Example 1: Split phantom lines, trapezoid, walk and dodge

On the other hand we process the rules of concepts in the reverse direction.

Example 2: Stable checkmate the column

The problem is that most concepts/formations have both formation and rule properties.

Example 3: Split phantom lines. 

They define a subgroup to work in (the formation property) but also imply a rule property that tells us how to relate the subgroups at the conclusion of the call. 

For example, split phantom waves counter rotate . We could take each split phantom wave group to another location in space and perform the call, then apply the rule properties (breathing) which tell us how to relate the two subgroups at the conclusion.

Example 4: Once removed. 

Its formation properties define a subgroup while its rule properties tell us how the subgroups are related, or in its simplest form, what wall each subgroup is closest to.

Scott's idea is that in executing a nested concept situation, we should begin by thinking of the formation properties and finish by thinking of the rule properties. However, we must apply the formation properties in forward order but apply the rules in reverse order.

Example 5 From right hand waves, once removed tandem hinge.

Once removed

Formation property: work in a group of 4
Rule property: offset towards which wall


Formation property: work in pairs
Rule property: how pairs are bonded

Apply the formation properties first and in forward order. In this case, find the once removed box, then pair yourself in a tandem unit. Do the call. Now apply the rule properties in reverse order. First maintain the integrity of each tandem unit, now become once removed toward your particular wall. This explains why the tandem units aren't directly behind each other - the once removed property was applied last.

Example 6: From right hand waves, tandem once removed hinge. 

Here all four people in a once removed setup will end together because when applying the rules in reverse order, we first apply the once removed rule, then the tandem one.


Example 7 presents two concepts which don't involve a formation property. 

Example 7 From right hand waves, 2/3 reverse order hotfoot spin


Formation property: none
Rule property: how much to do

Reverse Order

Formation property: none
Rule property: what order to execute call

Therefore, we apply only the rules, but in reverse order. We first remember hotfoot spin in reverse order is spin the top, very centers trade, fan the top. Now we apply the rule for the 2/3's concept which says to do only the first two parts. Thus, we do a spin the top, then the very centers trade. (Contrast this to "in reverse order, 2/3 hotfoot spin - which is very centers trade, all fan the top.)

Let's look at another example, the paradox that started this whole discussion.

Example 8 From a zero tag, concentric stable wheel thru


Formation property: 2 concentric boxes
Rule property: columns to columns, etc.


Formation property: none
Rule property: face beginning wall

By applying the formation properties in forward order, we see that we're to perform wheel thru in a concentric box. When that's finished, we apply the rules in reverse order. First we become stable by facing the beginning wall, then we apply the concentric rules of columns to columns. We don't need to make any physical adjustment in this last case because we're already in columns.

Now let's look at the opposite example.

Example 9: From a zero tag, stable concentric wheel thru

We apply the formation properties to do the wheel thru ending in lines. Now we apply the rule properties in reverse order. The concentric rule says we should adjust to columns. Then we apply the stable rule and face our beginning wall. Hence, in this case we end in lines even though we started in columns.

In examples 10 and 11 let's contrast another two similar looking calls that are merely different permutations of the same words.

Example 10 From a grand left hand two-faced line, couples twosome, once removed, as couples, quarter left
Couples twosome Formation Property: move in pairs
Rule Property: how pairs are bonded
Once removed Formation Property: what other pair to work with
Rule Property: towards which wall
As couples Formation Property: move in pairs
Rule Property: how pairs are bonded

Start by having the center couples adjust like in stretched line whatever. Each couple must act twosomely within itself, but each twosome couple must remain a beau or a belle relative to the other twosome couple. Now execute the call - to end in a couple following a couple. The all eight setup at this point is a zero tag.

Now for the readjustment - in reverse concept order. We're already as couples, that's cool. Once removed - have the centers pass thru. Couples twosome - oops, the centers have to un-pass thru to restore the twosome property. Thus, the ending setup is a zero tag. Of course, when actually dancing this, you'd ideally do these manipulations in your head to avoid the pass thru/un-pass thru absurdity.

Example 11 From a grand left hand two-faced line, as couples, once removed, couples twosome, quarter left
  The formation and rule properties are the same as Example 10

Again, start as a stretched setup. Execute the call, which in effect has each couple, as a couple, quarter left. Now let's apply the rule properties in reverse order. We've maintained the twosome property because each couple is to the proper side of the other one. There centers should then pass thru to restore the once removed property, and we're already as couples. Thus, the ending setup is eight chain thru.

In examples 12 and 13 let's contrast another set of permutations. The concept properties are the same as those outlined in Example 10.

Example 12 From a grand right hand wave, once removed, as couples, couples twosome, quarter right
The Adjustment In this case my strategy would be to merge my once removed people together to execute the call, then readjust the two once removed groups at the completion. When you hear "once removed", first make a mental note of the wall toward which your group is offset. Then have everyone take a little step forward so it's easy to see your foursome. The next modifier is as couples, so put your arm around her. Now for the twosome, note that your "couple" is to remain to "this" side of the other couple unit in your once removed setup.
The Execution Execute the call by having each couple, as a couple, quarter right. Each once removed unit is now a box with a couple following a couple.
The Readjustment Let's first readjust the all eight setup. We're couples twosome because the as couple unit is towards the proper wall. The as couples unit is preserved. Now apply the once removed rule and presto, we have an eight chain thru setup.

Now let's look at our final example.

Example 13 From a grand right hand wave, once removed, couples twosome, as couples quarter right
The Adjustment Take a small step forward to check the once removed group, then note which wall you're to remain closest to relative to your "partner" for the twosome. Now note that your twosome unit is the beau (or belle) of the as couples setup. You'll maintain this relationship throughout.
The Execution Everyone quarter right individually. Then have the original beau twosome tandem press to the left of the belle twosome unit. You now have a box with a couple following a couple, and each twosome (now tandem) remains the proper beau or belle relationship.
The Readjustment The as couples integrity has been preserved, and also the twosome property. First readjust to a once removed all eight setup. You end in an eight chain thru position.

The subject of "nested concepts" is not easy - by a long shot! - but the above discussion provides a strategy that can be utilized to solve them.

Page created by Bill Heimann

April 8, 2000